Well, the Pope didn’t physically pick up the phone and call me up to tell me “Hey Leonard, you’re not a Christian,” but he might as well. In a document released Thursday, Pope Benedict XVI claimed that those ‘churches’ outside of the Catholic Church were defective and ‘wounded’. In addition to making these claims, he continued on to state that the Catholic Church has the only true means of truth and salvation.
Now this is nothing new, but after Vatican II and the progress made in inter-Christian dialouge, it’s a it’s a poor show at continuing talks with the reformed Christian families.
This is also the second time Pope Benedict XVI has attempted at ‘overriding’ decisions made during Vatican II in recent weeks. His theological implications linger around apolistic succession, and how the modern reformed and protestant churches are not part of the Church of Christ because we have no physical ‘link’ to the original apostles and The Rock (Not Dwayne Johnson), Peter.
“Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church,” said the document released as the pope vacations at a villa in Lorenzago di Cadore, in Italy’s Dolomite mountains.
It’s interesting to see just how much a comment like this will damage inter-Christian dialouge.
As for myself; I’ll let God tell me whether I’m in His church or not.
July 12, 2007 at 4:15 am |
Sort of ironic, isn’t it? For so many years now Protestants, especially of the evangelical and fundamentalist sort, have been preaching about the evils of the RCC and how Catholics are not “saved.” Now the Pope turns the tables! HA! I love it! I say we get them all to mud wrestle it out.
July 12, 2007 at 4:21 am |
It is. I’ve had my share of evangelical pastors bashing Catholicism (mainly the South American kind found in Mexico) so i could understand. Both cases are as silly as the other. Of course I find myself disagreeing with certain practices, but there are more important things to worry about.
I say the Pope takes on Pat Robertson in a lightsaber duel.
July 13, 2007 at 4:18 am |
can I make bets on that mud wrestle match/light saber duel???
July 13, 2007 at 5:43 pm |
I say the Pope wins. He already looks like Emperor Palpatine, so he has to be as powerful as him (no disrespect to the Pope).
July 18, 2007 at 8:55 pm |
your brown mosnter has a suit.
it is extremely entertaining.
This is a disclaimer. If I ask a question it isn’t because I’m being sarcastic. I don’t know any better and I’d rather ask you than anyone else.But yeah this disclaimer applies to any and all questions I ever direct to this blog, and well, ever.
wasn’t the roman catholic church established before J. Christ was born…by the romans?
July 19, 2007 at 7:38 pm |
He is me in monster form… (Actually, he’s from Japan. His name is Domo-kun. I love him…
)
Nope. The Roman Catholic Church started the first Bishop of the church of Rome (Peter, one of the first apostles) started a church there. There are a bunch of Bishops all over the world, but since the Bishop of Rome was believed to start from the Apostle Peter, he kind of became the leader.
After Jesus died, his Disciples went around starting churches. Peter probably started the church in Rome. The Bishop of Rome was kind of the Leader of the other churches. Then he attained the title of the Pope.
So it was started after Jesus, when the Disples and the Apostle Paul ran around starting churches. They believe to have an ‘apolistic succession’, which means a direct chain of popes/bishops, that go all the way to the Disciples (and thus carry their authority).
Got it? I explained it like 2-3 ways
July 25, 2007 at 2:09 pm |
Hey don’t feel too bad. I’m not a “Christian” either and my church is just as old as the Catholic Church. More to the point however, since when was there ever really inter-Christian dialouge? People only meet and talk with the Pope when he wants to talk with them.
July 25, 2007 at 2:35 pm |
lol
He said the Orthodox was ‘injured’ but not as much as the Protestant Church. According to the Catholic Church, you’re more ’saved’ than I am.
I would say discussion opened up, somewhat, during the Second Vatican, when they decided that Protestants were ’saved’, or whatever they called it.
August 30, 2007 at 3:29 pm |
(((I do believe the back of the dollar says “One Nation Under God,”))) – you write.
WRONG. It says “In God We Trust” And that was added to our monetary system in the 1900’s. Specifically, 1935 for the dollar. This nation was established in 1776.
(((For starters, our nation DOES have a rich heritage as one under God (The Supreme Court would agree).))) – you go on.
The Supreme Court would agree? Since when is the supreme court an authority on historiography and the historicity of this nation? It is the judicial branch of this government, not the SUPREME authority of our nation. And its function is to interpret the constitution in terms of the world, today. This nation DOES NOT have a rich heritage as one under God. This nation was founded by DEISTS and SECULAR HUMANISTS. Deists are those who believe in a God, but solely as a spark plug – his involvement in everyday life is none.
And “One nation, under God” was added to the pledge in 1954, in light of the “god-less” heathens of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
((The framers of the Constitution and Declaration do mention a single creator, which would be in sharp odds with the 300,000,000 Gods found in Hinduism.)) – you pompously add.
HOW ignorant of you, fool. Lest I remind you of the pantheon of gods which preexisted your pathetic sole entity, you’re just as MUCH an atheist as I am. I go one god further. And that’s -your- god. What makes you so certain it’s not the “300,000,000″ Hindu gods that will judge you upon your entrance through the pearly gates? You’re a christian because you’re in a christian nation, raised by, I would presume, christian parents and have been indoctrinated with christian dogma.
And the mentions are to a deity, a creator, not a specific single entity with reference to any religiosity. Read the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence before attributing them with falsehood. And I reiterate, this nation wad founded by DEISTS – at best – and secular humanists. A select few were religious in the sense of believing in a god, but the majority of our founding fathers were advocates of the separation of Church and State. You can, as you religious persons tend to do, mingle with the technicalities of the terms used “church and state, not god and state”; but if interpreted from that period of time, it is a separation that demarcates any religious implication or imposition from the works of the state. Because stating a sole god is in contrast to the myriad of religious at play, it would be considered an imposition of a particular belief and not in accordance to the purpose of our founding fathers.
August 30, 2007 at 5:38 pm |
Thanks for the correction. I must have confused the ‘In God we Trust’ with ‘One nation Under God’. Swapped the Pledge with that on the dollar. Either way, the results are the same. Simple mistake.
If anything, my quotation is probably better as a mistake. Although the coinage says ‘In God we Trust’, and was coined in the 1900’s, you reminded me of the Creators/God’s mentioning in the Declaration. Since I’m guessing your point of “This was coined only in the 1900’s and there’s nothing before to suggest a heritage of God in Government,” I guess I’ll leave you with a piece of the introduction and the preamble of the Declaration. Here, late 1700’s, God’s role in being the source of our civil rights and liberties is clear, as it’s used as the presupposition to what rights we’re entitled to and thus provide reasoning to breaking away from mother England’s rule. It’s also a single creator/god, so it knocks any form of polytheism our the window.
“he separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them,”
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, ”
I wouldn’t say that the supreme court is the authority on history on our nation, but seeing we’re talking about law, and law is sewn into history, I don’t see the problem with citing historical court cases that justify the use of God in government, and it’s role there-of. Last time I checked, supreme court cases were part of history, and since they interrupted the law at a point in history, they reflect the mouth of the nation in it’s interpretation.
There is no SUPREME authority of our nation (minus the Constitution). Our system of checks and balances is placed so there never will be. This nation was NOT founded merely my Deists and Secular Humanist. Although they may have made up a few of those at the constitutional convention, it wasn’t the bulk.
Three documents probably stand as the ’supreme authority’ of the land. The second is void, so attention is placed on the first and third: The Declaration, The Articles of Confederation (void), and the Constitution. There were 95 Senators and Representatives in the First Federal Congress. If one combines the total number of signatures on the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution with the non-signing Constitutional Convention delegates, and then adds to that sum the number of congressmen in the First Federal Congress, one obtains a total of 238 “slots” or “positions” in these groups which one can classify as “Founding Fathers” of the United States. Because 40 individuals had multiple roles (they signed multiple documents and/or also served in the First Federal Congress), there are 204 unique individuals in this group of “Founding Fathers.”
Let us look at the signers shall we? Before let me quote you: “This nation was founded by DEISTS and SECULAR HUMANIST”. A direct comment like this suggest that you’re stating 100% of the founding fathers were either Secular Humanists or Deists. We now look at the religious affiliations of those who signed:
Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers (First)
# of
Founding
Fathers (Second)
% of
Founding
Fathers (Third)
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204
That includes George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.
Shall I list every founding father and their affiliation? Sure:
DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE:
Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian
ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION:
aniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Andrew Adams Connecticut Congregationalist
Richard Hutson South Carolina Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
John Banister Virginia Episcopalian
James Duane New York Episcopalian
Edward Langworthy Georgia Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris New York Episcopalian
Nicholas Van Dyke Delaware Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Cornelius Harnett North Carolina Episcopalian (Deist)
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
Henry Laurens South Carolina Huguenot
John Hanson Maryland Lutheran
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
John Walton Georgia Presbyterian
Nathaniel Scudder New Jersey Presbyterian
William Clingan Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Joseph Reed Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Daniel Roberdeau Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Jonathan Bayard Smith Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Francis Dana Massachusetts Protestant, denomination unknown
Samuel Holten Massachusetts Protestant, denomination unknown
James Lovell Massachusetts Protestant, denomination unknown
Henry Marchant Rhode Island Protestant, denomination unknown
John Collins Rhode Island Protestant, denomination unknown
Thomas Adams Virginia Protestant, denomination unknown
John Harvie Virginia Protestant, denomination unknown
John Mathews South Carolina Protestant, denomination unknown
William Henry Drayton South Carolina Protestant, denomination unknown
William Duer New York Protestant, denomination unknown
Titus Hosmer Connecticut Protestant, denomination unknown
Edward Telfair Georgia Protestant, denomination unknown
John Wentworth Jr. New Hampshire Protestant, denomination unknown
John Williams North Carolina Protestant, denomination unknown
CONSTITUTION
Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran
NONSIGNING DELEGATES
Oliver Ellsworth Connecticut Congregationalist
Caleb Strong Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Lansing, Jr. New York Dutch Reformed
Robert Yates New York Dutch Reformed
William Houstoun Georgia Episcopalian
William Leigh Pierce Georgia Episcopalian
Luther Martin Maryland Episcopalian
John F. Mercer Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
George Mason Virginia Episcopalian
Edmund J. Randolph Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
James McClurg Virginia Presbyterian
William C. Houston New Jersey Presbyterian
William R. Davie North Carolina Presbyterian
Alexander Martin North Carolina Presbyterian
ALL of the above participated in the development of these articles/texts. Of course Jefferson and Benjamin were Deists, and yes they carried major influence, but I’m sure you can view the above names and conclude, like any logical person, that the signers were OVERWHELMINGLY PROTESTANT.
Only two were even Roman Catholic. You call me a fool, yet you make such a comment as “ALL WERE DIEST AND SECULAR HUMANIST.” I’ve experienced many atheist who take these types of arguments, so you’re not the first. I cannot judge you for having any real moral absolute, so it’s not your fault you judge and call me a fool.
I’ll leave a conclusion and the above facts to stand for themselves.
As for the debate on Christianity and Hinduism, that’s an entirely different argument. For times sake, I’ll stick to what you first addressed.
PS: I was not indoctrinated. I became a Christian two years ago, upon a free-willed decision and conclusion that a single creator exists, and that my created purpose was to seek this creator. Your presuppositions sap your judgment. One of ym best friends was indoctrinated as a Muslin in Iran and came here to find Christianity. Millions of others are self-proclaiming Christians in India and China. Drop the silly indoctrination makes up all Christians stereotype.
PSS: I have read them. I have memorized amendments. You once again presume I have not. I study political science. As for interpretation, I leave it to those who interpret the Constitution (remember that Supreme Court)? They agree with me. You should read into the court cases.
PSSS: God Bless you.
SOURCE: ttp://www.adherents.com. Adherents is a site dedicated to developing religious statistics.