A Feminist Concept of Marriage vs. the Godly Alternative. Continuation of Facebook Marriage Discussion

Justin McNealy ./sigh…”No man ever believes that the Bible means what

it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means.”

–George Bernard Shaw

And that’s really all I have to say about that.

Sat at 1:24am

Søren Stidsen That one is too easy.

It can actually be a tough one, when you realise, that you disagree

with the bible and then have to adjust your own position.

Sat at 1:46am

Leonard Goenaga Oh Justin, come on now, that was entirely not even

appropriate. If you surround yourself with such assumptions, that every

man merely takes what he wishes from scripture, than you will

oh-so-conveniently cast it aside.

The wonderful thing about being a protestant is that scripture is the

final authority. You can place it within its historical, cultural, and

literal setting and get a very straightforward answer.

Your quote will apply tremendously to liberal protestant scholarship,

but hardly would that apply to an actual examination of what it says.

The conservative protestant would agree with you, that individ

uals warp

scripture to theological justify certain beliefs. They take scripture

to support a point, starting from their assumption, rather than

starting from scripture.

Also, your quote had nothing to do with the issue of social

generational responsibility, and the importance of the institution of

marriage. It was merely an appropriate way to fan your presuppositions.

Sat at 2:47pm

Female Friend: Before you go around quoting feminist scholarly lit. READ

the entire book. When you quote one line or two, you can make ANYTHING

and ANYONE look bad.

I agree with Servia, I pity you. Further more, I actually pity your

wife for being subjected to this because how you think projects on how

you treat her. I don’t care if you buy her a BMW and a house on by the

beach, a woman made to “submit” is not a woman loved. I don’t care how

you sugar coat it. It’s an indentured servant.

“SUBMIT: to defer to another’s judgment, opinion, decision, etc.: I

submit to your superior judgment.

to place (oneself) under the control of another,” from L. submittere

“to yield, lower, let down, put under, reduce,”

DO YOU KNOW, that those words described above are also used to describe


24 minutes ago

Female Friend: Further more, yes, there are gender diffrences, our organs

hang inwards, while yours hang outwards. It gives us GREATER=2


control because we think with our minds rather then our penises. AND

psychologically speaking (proven by research), women reach rational

thinking before men do.

YES, you can bench press more, WOW. Do you know that medically proven,

women have great pain tolerence?!? And higher endurance?!? So I don’t

give a damn about what you say about “gender diffrences,” it has not

grounds on why we must “submit” to you besides you not wanting to grow

up and be a man. Your mommy made your bed and cooked for you. Now your

wife does it for you. Stop hiding behind your laziness and grow up. It

has nothing to do with “natural order’ because if you look at nature,

it is OFTEN the female in numerous specaies that is in charge.

18 minutes ago

Female Friend: And don’t hide behind “i take care of my wife so she cooks

for me.” The majority of college grads ARE women. She doesn’t need you

to pay bills, unless she’s to lazy to go out and get a job.

Do you know that wives that “submit” to their husbands live 5 years

less then single women or women in feminist relationships and have

higher depression? While men like you who have submitted wives live 5

years longer then single men?!? Good for you! But it speaks about the

stress on the wives who have such lives!

Do you know that research shows that women in feminist relatiionships

are up to 70% happier then “submitted” wives?!? And

husbands in such

relationships have more sex a week then men in relationships like yours?

Feminisism did not do anything to divorce rates. Divorce rates have

been increasing EVERY year since divorce was an option. Do your

research. It had nothing to do with feminism.

Feminism HELPED with divorce rates. WOW. Do you know why?!? WOMEN

STARTED WORKING!!! They didn’t

12 minutes ago

Leonard Goenaga For one who goes on claiming how blatantly in error I am

for not reading them in full, you are quick to make assumptions on how

I treat her. It would be best for you to ask yourself how she feels

about the condition of her marriage; how she feels about the roles we

both actively, and supportively, carry out.

The Church has to submit to Christ. If marriage is a mere finite

expression of this submission, are you to suggest that the Church

Body’s submission to Christ, as God had designed such a relationship to

be, something as unloving?

The condition of a rebellious heart is made clear: you have problems

submitting, to God and to anyone in general. The marital relationship

God designed is absolutely beautiful. A woman submits to her husband’s

leadership, and a man lays his life on the line and devotes himself to

his wife as Christ devoted himself to the death.

If you disagree with this design, what then on your idea of Jesus’ and

the bride of the Church?

5 minutes ago

Female Friend: They didn’t ave to stay with scum bags because they had an

income. When women weren’t allowed to work, they had NO choice! It was

either be homeless, or deal with the husbands ill behavior. Having an

income gave them the option to not tolerate ill and lazy behavior from

husbands. It helped marriages by sending a message to terrible husbands

that they better get their act together.

Vivian Gorn made the quoted statement in your post about marrying men

like you and Soren. She did NOT oppose marriage. She opposed sick

marriages. There IS a difference.

A woman is not a child, she does not need to submit to you. We are ALL

equal in the eyes of God, so twist it however you like. Submitting is

not Gods will. The bible has been editing by MEN in their favor, and

the many of the text hidden.

On another note, 86.2% of the population is Christian according to USA

Census while less the 37% of American Women are Feminist. THAT IS NOT

ENOUGH to cause the divorce problem happening in the united

3 minutes ago

Leonard Goenaga: Furthermore, a rebellious heart is a wicked heart. Why was Israel exiled? Because they rebelled against God.

You offered me a rant on the superiority of woman. Man, nor woman, are superior. Rather, we are lowly vile creations. We are absolutely equal in our depravity. One is no greater than the other. Both are made in the image of God, and are thus equal. Equal in our access to Salvation, and equal in our worth before God. You overtly have pride in your gender, I do not. I wonder why you must tell yourself your gender is somehow superior, but I will guess it to be a condition of the heart.

Listen, as you do not understand how this relationship works. God is the Father, Jesus is the Son, and then we have the spirit. Jesus came to us under the Father, and Jesus sent to us the Spirit. A hierarchy of the trinity exists, but one cannot be greater than the other; it is merely a relationship of hierarchy.

The president is higher than you in terms of hierarchy, but his value as a human is

about an hour ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: equal to yours. He can sign an executive order and you cannot, although your relationship to him is respected. However, his humanity is not greater than yours. Legally, if he murders someone, and you murder someone, you are both murderers. Your humanity is equal, but the hierarchy is the same.

Perhaps this will help you understand. Ever more, I force no one into submission. Rather, my wife chooses to submit willingly, as we both willingly choose to submit to Jesus.

You will have a hard time in any relationship, specifically with men, if you believe yourself to be somehow superior (as you obviously need to tell yourself you are, i.e. above comments). A relationship will only ever work if it is in submission; if it is in servitude to one another.

The servitude in marriage is reflective of a greater more important and spiritual servitude to Christ. If you cannot accept, nor learn, how to serve your spouse, how than can you possibly understand to serve your God? How then, can you

about an hour ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: become a slave unto Christ?

“The one who boasts must boast in the Lord.” (1 Cor. 1:31).

“For to those who are perishing the message of the cross is foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is God’s power.” (1:18)

“God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength.” (1:25).

In addition, you tell me not to quote these feminists, yet you do nothing to explain these quotes to me. A simple way to cast them aside.

The spiritual significance is great. You greatly despise a vision of Men as posing themselves as greater than woman, as more powerful (things I not once did in my above comments, where I discuss marriage, not male supremacy).

Although, how you commit the very sin you complain against, by going on a tirade of the superiority of woman. Do you not see a conflict here? A sort of hypocrisy?

about an hour ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: Why, must your convince yourself of such a superiority? Do you feel such a weakness? Have you been injured by wordly men?

I can tell you there is a man who can show you the value of submission. His name is Jesus, and he will show you how beautiful servitude can be. If there is any pity to be passed, and by all means you can judge my relationship however you wish, it is I who may not stop myself from pity.

You place your bet on the wisdom of the world, which is foolishness to God. What i pity, is that you must convince yourself about something. You must have been hurt by a man, or men, and you must now find strength in your gender; exaggerating such gender hatred to find some type of foundation.

However to do so is to build a house on sinking sand. Humanity’s wisdom is weak, and you will find no joy nor salvation in the knowledge of any gender-focused argument is greater than another. Only God can show you such, and you will only make it that much more difficult to submit.

about an hour ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: Btw, you’re in error with some of the things you’ve stated as factual. Brain studies have shown men and woman to be entirely different in their approaches to thinking and relationships via brain scan studies. The intellectual and scientific idea that woman and men are the same except for reproductive organs is archaic at best.

about an hour ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: “I believe both parties need to Submit to God and God ALONE.”

And finally, if you believe we must submit to God, than are you submitting to Him when he asks you to submit to your husband? Jesus is not inferior to God. The Spirit is not inferior to Jesus. It is called a relationship.

You also have no understanding of how our relationship functions. Their is no I and Her. there is no Katrina and Leonard. Your problem is that you view your relationship as two people, where God has established it as a union of one flesh. No identity outside the other exists.

It is foolishness to pity someone for assuming, while your pity rests on assumptions themselves.

56 minutes ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: It was a simple question. Anyone can morph text however they wish. However, God’s truth is objective. He is rather straightforward in his truths.

A Christian is someone who submits and follows Christ. As such you follow his commands and designs for marriage. You do not take such, and mold it to surround feminism, or ideology, or whatever other foolish philosophies of man.

It is simple. God offers this truth: wife’s submit to your husbands. God is asking you to submit to your husband. The idea to you gets polluted by whatever assumptions you make about men, or about this idea of servitude. It is polluted to you; some hateful relationship of man’s control over woman. It is an unwarranted assumption: you need to understand the Church’s loving role in submission to Christ, and then you would willingly wish to do the same.

In other words, if you care to call yourself a Christian, how are you approaching such a verse? Do you see it, and move to your feminism for an answer, or do you

51 minutes ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: allow God to speak for himself.

You cannot follow God and also follow militant feminism. One obviously has the greatest authority. To filter God’s truths through any ideology is to poison truth with presuppositions. With man as flawed as we are, why in the world would we want to filter His truth through our observations?

Again, what do you do with such a verse? How do you explain it? Do you just skip it, and look away, because your feminism tells you otherwise? If that is the case, I would highlight where your priority thus lies. In the world, or in the word?

49 minutes ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: So it is the men editing who do so? So instead of taking it as God’s word, you explain it away as Men editing. How is that not feminism poisoning understand of scripture?

If you look over it as the editing of men, why take anything the bible says as truth, let alone our understanding of Jesus and God? The whole thing could just be a work of editing correct?

Fortunately that is as far-fetched as an understanding of scripture can come.

Until you learn how to submit to Miguel, and Miguel learns how to do the same, a relationship will never be successful.

Romance dies. Feelings die. What matters is the covenant, the promise. You do not get married for eachother, but for God. Marriage supports love, not love supports marriage.

You’re not understanding how this marital relationship works: You’re seeing it in the modern romanticism version, not God’s intended design.

I want you to understand that your feminism is clouding your understanding of scripture. You say it is edited by men,

39 minutes ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: as your feminism assumes, instead of seeing scripture as scripture. Can you understand now what I am trying to highlight? Your Christianity is filtered through your feminism, and not the other way around.

Study in depth how marriage works in bible. You will be surprised by its beauty. Read John Piper’s This Momentary Marriage (a really short read), and you will discover how incredible this relationship is. This Union.

Again, I cannot stress it enough. Scripture speaks for itself. To filter it through any worldview whatsoever, is to poison God’s Word with human foolishness.

36 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: Friend, I am still unsure of why I need to be pitied, but I will respond with this.

I am a highly educated woman who graduated cum laude from a well-regarded private institution. I spent three years studying women’s rights and at one point would have probably considered myself to be a feminist. After years of rigorous study I have come to the conclusion that the only thing I am proud to be called is a God-fearing woman and a servant of CHRIST. I have only one master and his name is God. Before you go and assume you know everything about the other side of your argument you probably should have consulted me first.

27 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: The Bible clearly says in Ephesians 5:21, “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” It doesn’t say that men are meant to be slave drivers in charge of women nor does it say that women are meant to be in charge of men. It clearly states that we, men and women alike, are meant to submit to one another out of respect for our creator. I’ll give you a perfect example: a police officer is put in place to protect his city and community, right? Does that mean because I am not a police officer that he is somehow better than me? Or that he is more intelligent or stronger? No, it merely means that he was placed in a role of authority. He has been given a job to protect and guard his community. Just as police officers are meant to protect and guard their cities, men, as prescribed by the Bible, are meant to provide for, protect and support their wives.

27 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: Does that mean that Lenny is somehow better than me? Absolutely not! Lenny and I were created equal in the eyes of God. I merely have a different role than him. Does that make me stupid or naïve? No! I am just as educated as Leonard, when we both had jobs I made just as much money as he did, if not more, I am free to do what I please when I please as long as it is respectful to myself, to God and my marriage.

I am not Leonard’s slave, I am his wife and if you cannot understand this than I pity you because you will never know the love of a Godly man if you continue to hold on to these preconceived notions of what a biblical, God-centered marriage really is. It is obvious from your statements that YOU have never READ the Bible from which we receive our truths.

27 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: Ephesians 5:22-33 says, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”

26 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: My husband treats me with more respect and love than I could have ever imaged and that’s because he has God as his source of reference. The best way that my husband could ever show me how he loves me is through following the truths that God has placed for us in the Bible. I could not imagine how our marriage would be if Christ was not at the center of our relationship and we were merely married for our own selfish desires, which is what you basically follow. You seem to be unhappy because you are not able to get your way. Once you realize that marriage is not about yourself and is about a union with God and your husband you will begin to understand where we are coming from, but until then your views of submission are going to be skewed.

26 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: My husband does not need to buy me a BMW or a house, because I am complacent with nothing. All I desire is a Godly man, a man who is willing to treat me the way Christ loved the church and because you cannot comprehend the love that Christ had for his church you will never be able to comprehend the amount of love that Leonard has for me. I submit because I know that Leonard’s sacrifice was much greater than mine. He submits himself to me daily and for that I am eternally grateful.

Tania, I have no problem submitting to my husband because I have submitted myself fully to Christ.

26 minutes ago · Delete

Female Friend: Okay, I have a question for you. Do you asks your wifes opinion on certain decisions? Or do you just do what you want to do? because if you consider her opinion or meet her half way, that’s not submission.

Also, not every man wants a woman to submit. Miguel asks for my opinion for every decision, and he WANTS to meet half-way, not just do whatever he wants and have me submit to his “authority”. Miguel wants an equal. Furthermore, he even wants me to manage the money once we get married.

To me, submission=doormat, I guess you don’t see it that way, But I do, Miguel does too. And I know some other guys who do too. MOST men think like you, and I wouldn’t date someone who thinks like wise, because othere wise, it would be war. And Miguel has dumped all of his sex’s, because they submit, rather then be his equal. So it works perfectly for us. Not everyone wants what you have. and vice-versa of course.

22 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: I can answer that question.

Yes, he does ask my opinion about EVERYTHING! Because Leonard is not an individual, he is only one half of our marriage. He cannot stand on his own.

Submission does not mean that you ask for opinions or that you ask for permission.

Submission is humbling yourself before God and your spouse. It is not making yourself a doormat, but opening up your heart and your love. If I was not able to submit to Leonard openly and if he was not able to submit to me openly our marriage would have a TON of problems because we would only be looking out for ourselves and not each other. You don’t get married to make yourself happy, you get married because you love the man you’re with, right? So why is it that every question you’ve asked has to do with you getting your way?

Tania, my husband is not in charge of everything, nor am I. We have an equal partnership that is based on the truths that God has set out for us in the Bible.

14 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: Friend, I think it’s funny that you can judge us like you know us. Or at least like you know me, because you don’t. And you need to understand that.

Leonard is my equal just as I am his. I live my life in a way that supports him and he lives his life in a way that supports me. That is what you are not understanding. I take care of my husband to the best of my ability, which does mean cleaning, cooking, etc and he takes care of me to the best of his ability, which means providing and protecting me. But this is not where our roles end. I also take care of him emotionally, spiritually, and physically, just as he does those same things for me in return, if not more.

8 minutes ago · Delete

Katrina Goenaga: I guess it worked out for you that you found someone who does not want you to be a Godly woman because that’s obviously not who you want to be. But you need to understand that submission does not equal doormat, it merely means letting go of your own personally selfishness and living for God’s truth.

5 minutes ago · Delete

Leonard Goenaga: In addition to what Katrina said, God did something incredibly genius with our relationship with men and woman. Men, being biologically stronger, as well as their mentality, have a greater ability to abuse.

As such, God designed his marriage, founded under equality, yet with the headship of the man, yet under the submission to God, to prevent a solution to the VERY abuse you’re arguing against! Man has a vast capacity to hurt, and to abuse, and to take advantage of. As such, God designed a form of marriage, that humbled before God, would counteract that very dilemma! It is a beautiful solution. He designs marriage in such a way, that a Godly man, would product women from the abuse against men.

It is beyond words in its beauty, and as such you understand the idea of a protector male figure, in the authoritative role that Kat mentioned (police officer).

Even greater it is when understood within the biblical times it occurred.

2 seconds ago · Delete


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